Curse

executrix · May 02, 2006, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Well i was a new person to the MM build i usually played as a monk in other MMO's and found issues in the energy management department. So as a joke my friend said why not try MM and i did and had the best fun i remember of my GW experience now why the Nerf may have hit us in the head with a sledge hammer i'm sure it has not destroyed the build. Do you really need 40 minions to have fun while i a not so experienced MM could keep around 15 minions alive the nerf hasn't hurt me as much only the VS nerf has hurt. While MM is a great assest i prefer keeping around 10 minions to compliment a team and why not get factions and try and use some of the communing attribute, and for PvP why not keep 3 minions alive with VS take verata's aura incase they use it against you and you should be fine combine it with union which lowers all damge by 15 and you might be an effective PvP build as well.
but i will do this
/signed

calamitykell · May 02, 2006, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karmaniac

You see, the majority of people who play MMORPGs are in many ways similar to children. They are ungrateful brats with poor grammar who can only think about themselves. Because they are always right (and thus you cannot be reasoned with) they are completely happy to defend their standing with incomprehensible moonlogic (As seen in the find-a-way-around-the-problem-to-make-it-not-seem-like-a-problem approach instead of admitting the fix was needed). As a defensive mechanism they incessantly act as martyrs who are wronged by the uncaring higher powers to try and make other people side with them out of sympathy.

Most of them are 12 too.

/not signed gg and have a nice life.

Single greatest post in this thread.

dgb · May 02, 2006, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Minion masters are still highly viable, it jsut means you have to put a bit more work into them. Boo-hoo - no minion army of doom anhilating everything in it's path anymore. A good MM was ridiculously powerful in PvE. A good MM is still a touch overpowered compared to other characters, but nothing like it was.

Njall · May 02, 2006, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

A good MM is still a touch overpowered compared to other characters

I disagree : say a good MM has the same power that another characters but he's not overpowered

Btw, if it's only because MM was too powerful, why SS is not nerfed too ? and the lowlife monk ? After all, a 2man team emptying the UW is very very overpowered

arcanemacabre · May 02, 2006, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I morned the death of the mass minion armies of doom, and moved on. I have, however, taken a few of those new Death Magic skills, and working them into my new MM build. I dumped Verata's Sac. and I'm not lookin back!

Heck, it's actually a little more fun, now. The old MM was actually boring. So boring, in fact, that I had to switch up skills constantly, even purposely gimping myself to have a little fun. I now welcome the new MM with open arms!

"Come to me, my pretties!" *cackle*

shoot n loot · May 02, 2006, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Heres a great idea for a net, since vamp horrors do vampiric attacks, make their attacks act like vampiric spells and do a certain amount of dmg (make it like 15 or 20 even, hell i wouldnt mind 30 or 40 but that may be asking too much), just a suggestion, it makes sense to me anyways.. also i just got flesh golum on my necro anyways, and ill tell you, it rocks. it has a low energy cost, if degen on it gets to bad you can just let it die and recast it, ok on normal mobs mayb not so much but i rushed a friend through The Great North Wall (first mission) and it was hitting insanely hard (of coarse, it was higher then normal b/c my +1 (20%) had kicked in in top of 16 death) but still.. theres nothing like watching a pet 1 hit mobs for -243 and the like, and im dead serious i saw it hit that hard. I massacured every single charr at the end, the vamp horrors mobbed them and the Flesh Golum was just to much for em, cas it tended to 1 or 2 hit them. I miss my AoL (very nice for BoTM) but i have to say, i do appreciate them adding a good death elite. Id really like it if they maby raised cap to 15 minions, but its just not going to happen once A Net nerfs somthign, they dont un nerf it no matter how much we deserve it, look at Ele its been destroyed pve wise, but a net hasnt fixed them, or the smite monk... no more, so lets start looking up at the posibilities of future MMing, and unite as one, MMs United ~!

shoot n loot · May 02, 2006, 01:06 PM // 13:06

well heres another post, ive noticed how spammable BoTM is now, try this to keep minions alive instead of using Veratas at all, you just BoTM< Heal Area > BoTM, whenever they are near you, also i cant remember if this is new cas i sued to kind of neglect this great skill as a MM, but now when you cast BoTM they do not need to be near you and ~~heres the brilliant part~~ it heals other MMs minions without costing you, i recently did a canthan mission with 3 mms (includign mysel) and we kept up 30 minions majority of time, including 3 flesh golums, some bone fiends and some vamp horrors. We were constantly healign cas we had 2 good monks who would heal sac dmg when needed, and we coudl sac every 2 seconds each (wtih 3 mms this = 122 heal every .75 seconds = overpowereing healign power vs mobs on minions), this is very cool and i hope A Net doesnt call it a gltich and fix it, specially since you dotn sac additional health when you heal their minions

Cirian · May 02, 2006, 01:13 PM // 13:13

The amount of skill, and the hours upon hours of practice it takes to really work the system doesn't excuse the fact that Minion Mastery was wickedly overpowered in the hands of a talented player.

So it got a slap, and it was for the good of the game. Yes it was! It's just a bitter pill to swallow when Grenth pulls us back from 'grossly overpowered' to just 'mildly overpowered'

We're still gods

The new system is interesting - there's some real scope for minion masters co-operating to pool their minion quotas and share the healing burden. There's good stuff in the new system, I know it

We're fiiiiiiiiiiiiine!

D8tura · May 02, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

this is my two cents on the nerf:

I'm not terribly upset about the number of minions. with some of the new ones and the oldest minion being replaced with the newest one it's not too extreme (my army was never terribly huge like 80). Also with the golem it could still be ok to only have ten. What I do express rage about is veratas sacrifice. To put it into perspective it would be would be like:

blessed signet taking twice as long to recharge (or maybe a constant Rust like state on it)- the death of bonders

Stances taking time to cast - you'd hear endless bitching from the tanks who are saying "so what" to minion masters

making the cast time twice as longe for VS was unbearable for me as a MM. When I found out that the nerf took place (right after i got my MM armor - go figure) I was dumbfounded that AreaNet, who claims to have "balance" in the game, did this. I see NO balance in the extreme nerfing of this spell. I'll play curses from now on and have a really bad taste in my mouth right now about the whole thing - I almost killed my neccro in disgust and would have done so had i not spent so much loving time in making her. You will see a ton or people just dropping MM's because in my book they are complete RUBBISH now.

I don't know what their reasoning behind this was - it does go against being a neccro. Most people are simply not going to play them - it's not rewarding and not fun. I'm glad guildies got my Bortak's items for me. I'd NEVER buy em now. They're plummeting in price too. Hmmmm...........

To hell with the golems and vamipric horrors. Or bettter yet make a nerf ONLY when you control a golem if they think they're so damn powerful - that would be more "balanced".

I hope enough people will just not play MM's sending a clear message to Arena Net to carefully re-evaluate this nerf.

Synnomis · May 02, 2006, 05:32 PM // 17:32

I love the new MM. It's fun, powerful, diverse, and a completly different experience than the old 'hur, how many can i make hurrr' system. now you can putrid explode stuff, be a sort of MM battery for the other necros in your group (2 minions die, instant E from SR), and so much more.

Fantastic change, ANet. You've given new life to my old boring MM.

Fred Kiwi · May 02, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheetum

i dont think its PVP they are trying to nerf but the 80 minion armies u just described. there is no way it should be possible for a necro to maintain and heal that many creatures, even a monk cant touch that. now add vampiric minions and you can see the problem...

limit hte number of vampy minions. yes 80 is a problem. But why 10?

(again sorry if this has been said a million times before me)

sigried · May 02, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

i know what you mean even i that just started to use the Necro and i love playing as a MM but the limit they addes is absurd only havin 10 mm is so stuped i thought it was MM not MMlimit.

Sado The One · May 02, 2006, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Hey guys, it seems you have not read the description of the vamp minnion skill... it´s recharge time is 30 SECONDS, besides being really expensive and not healing THAT much (until now, on my experiments)..an Army of 10 vamp horrors, while very interesting, is not an easy task to create/mantain..

IMHO, now the way is the minnion bomber.. tons of AoE dmg (+poison!) from cheap dual bone minnions (imagine hitting a group of 12enemies with 10 of those little nukes packed and ready to blow them all at once

). With BotM and taste of death you can control theyre lives-and deaths!, so you can pack the dmg in a spike-like mode..

only have some trouble in targeting the minnions to cast DN, one at a time, with the cursor.. if anyone can help me on that, i´d be VERY gratefull!

Btw: Flesh golems are SO COOL! wait until a lvl28 piece of meat with an axe as a hand tanks and deals 40-50 dmg each hit at the same time, while providing a shield for attacks directed to you (dark bond) and an eterna fountain of health (taste of death), and whose death is most of the time associated with fireworks (death nova) followed by ANOTHER lvl 26-28 tank in the middle of the enemy aggro!

(if any of the actual MMs could contact me, se we can share experiences..

)

And @ warriors: you´ll feel the nerf bat too... and i think we won´t have to wait a lot for that...

Cowboy Nastyman · May 03, 2006, 07:21 AM // 07:21

i personally love the change to mm, with the limit to minions i spend less time and energy trying to heal my babies especially with how badass blood of the master is now. this leaves me with plenty of extra energy so i use it to play support, heres the mm build i use

Bone Fiend (my minion of choice)
Blood of the Master (awesome spammable heal for my pets)
Putrid Explosion (alot of leftover corpses, this is a great use for em)
Infuse Condition (combined with Martyr conditions disappear with no ill effects to you)
Heal Area (self Heal and a little somethign extra for nay nearby pets)
Heal Party (Soul Reaping leaves me with plenty of energy to throw this around)
Martyr (take care of all conditions for your party great support skill)
Res of choice

16 death 9 soul 11 heal sup soul and death, the lower health total helps with the sac cost of botm, steamrolled vizunah square with this setup, try it out you may like it

Njall · May 03, 2006, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Personnally, I did Vizunah square with 16 Death, 9 Soulreaping, 11 Blood.. wells are always welcome and I don't like to let unused corpses behind me

Quote:

Blood of the Master (awesome spammable heal for my pets)

Spammable with 25% life cost ? I don't really know the monk spells so you may do it easily.. I have to use Aura of the Lich to use BoTM easily.
That's what I was thinking yesterday doing Gyala Hatchery's mission.. I laughed thinking of the changes :
-Verata's sacrifice : useless, BoTM is a lot better now
-Verata's Aura (and the other Verata spell) : useless, you won't need it anymore, unless you go against 2 MMs at the same time.
-Vampiric horror : too expensive.. I tried with 17 Death and 16 Soulreaping (with Grenth's blessing), I ran out of energy too fast and the healing is.. well.. oh it must be useful in some situations.. I have just not found them yet.
-Flesh golem : certainly useful but is an Elite... between Aura of the lich and this, I don't even have to think a long time before taking the aura.
-Bone minions : useful as a battery.. but you don't need any points in Death to use them that way.

At least, we won't have anymore too many useful skills....

Loch · May 03, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Lol... another open letter. I remember these when the AI was updated (dubbed "AoE nerf" by many, even though the skills actually weren't touched).

ArenaNet made a balance change. Live with it.

Cowboy Nastyman · May 03, 2006, 03:10 PM // 15:10

the 25% cost is a non issue as long as wou dont sac yourself to death, once i have 10 minions up im rarely a target so being able to fire off a couple botms in a row is quite handy to keep em up and killing, this health loss is almsot completely negated by heal area

D8tura · May 03, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboy Nastyman

i personally love the change to mm, with the limit to minions i spend less time and energy trying to heal my babies especially with how badass blood of the master is now. this leaves me with plenty of extra energy so i use it to play support,

If time and energy was an issue, why did you raise so many pre-nerf if you didn't want to do the work? Food for thought..............

I thrilled Jimmy Dean and you like to new build - couldn't be happier for you, but given a vote of all the MM's I'd be willing to lay money that you'd be seriously out numbered if the majority had a say in the "balancing"

A balance was necessary - I totally agree. How is was balanced I do not totally agree with. VS is not a balance and it's sad that MM's everywhere suffer as a result. I'm not a big fan of sacrificing an enormous amount of life with botm because i'm waiting for VS to recharge. Heal area is not an option with Me as a second profession (want to keep mesmer) Any suggestions would help (yes i've tried echo already and it still sucks more life yet because you spam two VS because of the 20 second time limit so you cannot convince me that (archane) echo solves the problem).

If you respond please don't say soul feast or taste of death either. Wasting a corpse or a minion to heal myself to heal minions is counter-productive i feel and you should never just take it for granted that you'll always have a free corpse/minion/energy to utilize this way.

Any help is appreciated.

Chronos the Defiler · May 03, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

/sign FIX THIS SHYT

if limiting them was bad enough, they arent even useful in PvP to begin with, thy are destroyed by high lvl mobs in cantha, they are practically useless now...

it woudnt be so bad if they removed the constant degen from minions since they are limited now...spamming and wasting crap loads of energy just for a miion to get 3/4 of its health removed with the damned explosion thte afflicted have.

This is just stupid, 10 minions max (i havent gotten flesh golem yet so i do not know if this counts as a normal minion), degen on them as well, high energy cost, and a useless healing skill that lasts 10 seconds for a 60 second recharge...these people must be out of their fuking minds

1.) Removing Degeneration: This will lower the amount of basic Minion Bombers (basic meaning the noobie MMs that don't use taste of death), this will also help in the PvE aspect for minions, since they are now limited to a specific amount, they should not need such strain to maintain such a smally minion army.

2.) Removing Useless Skills: Namely Verata's Sacrafice, the recent nerf has made this skill useless and pathetic, a 10 second heal for a 60 second recharge doesnt go very good in the heat of battle, remove or fix would suffice.

3.) Classification of Minions: This is just a suggestion but perhaps minions can be classified in their own way and that can be added to the minion max count, i.e Flesh Golem would not count as a "basic" minion and would be allowed to have its own section for max count....with 16 death, you can have 10 minions, so that would be changed to 10 basic minions as well as lets say able to have a max of 2 advanced minions (each advanced minion is limited to 1 of its own kind...read next suggestion)

4.) New Advanced Minions: Adding skill using or magic damage dealing minions as well as the basic "run and attack" minions.

5.) Minion Healing Skills: there is only one really decent minion healing skill, and it is now the most spammed one, adding new minion healing skills wouldnt be necessary if the degeneration was removed mind you.

Certaain things can be fixed easy just be reverting a few settings, but if we are going to limit minions...why make them still die on the way from one mob to the next? or the fact they get slughtered in the middle of battle....too many stupid "fixes" were a applied to a NOT broken build.

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · May 03, 2006, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Carinae I had not taken the time to read the other posts but I read yours to the extent. It was beautifully well written and I find no fault in it. Being an MM my self and a Nuker both nerfed now I am saddened at this. GW has taken an axe to both my character types.. And I still see warriors running places like the tombs. I have attempted to adapt though and it has worked out well in a structured group I just need to cap Flesh Golem to make my build complete. It relies on some of the new damage dealing skills in Factions and the FLesh Golem.
I have Full Death and 12 Soul reap with a major rune.
I use:
Deathly Swarm
Deathly Chill
Bitter Chill
BoTM
Vamp Horr
Fiend or Horr(depending on how I feel)
Animate FLesh Golem(I havent gotten this yet)
either res or VS
I use BC on the target then I use DC then DS I rinse and repeat until the foe is dead then I animate a flesh golem and keep him up and then I use the same damage tactics against my next enemies until I build momentum.I used this in the Vizunah Square mission without the golem and it worked wonderfully well. I call theis build the Damage Master. Rising Bile may also be a useful skill. I used to be able to carry a complete group of noobs through THK with the old MM I hope that even though now I can't I can help revive our strength LONG LIVE THE MASTERS OF THE DEAD!.....I wish I could revive the nuker....